Curse

Braxton619 · Jul 03, 2009, 07:12 PM // 19:12

/notsigned

Warriors are the main class to tank. Makes sense.

Arkantos · Jul 03, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

A lot of people don't know how to switch targets when they're c-spaced onto a defy warrior. Plus, running from a 1v1 is dishonorable, so you are required to fight a defy warrior to the death.

This is true. You cannot flee from an honorable 1v1, and defy pain warriors are majorly overpowered in honorable 1v1s.

On a serious note, defy pain sucks, it doesn't need a nerf. If you see a defy pain warrior and you don't change targets, you're doing something wrong.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalMan

The only time i've seen it run is by people in RA and the few lulz players in GvG (like that guy in nH)

either way, its not actually that good, and lowers a warriors dps immensely... if your having problems killing it, kill something else, it can't kill you.

How does it lower his dps immensely, really?

And the first part...you obviously dont JQ do you?

scruffy · Jul 03, 2009, 07:25 PM // 19:25

thats why defy pain owns, you're eliminated from the enemy teams target selection. this means you can do whatever you want, go balls deep, tank footmen, tank lord room...its a pretty strong elite assuming your midline does enough damage to spike people down, if you're doing a pressure build you would probably want conjure/eviscerate instead.

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

thats why defy pain owns, you're eliminated from the enemy teams target selection. this means you can do whatever you want, go balls deep, tank footmen, tank lord room...its a pretty strong elite assuming your midline does enough damage to spike people down, if you're doing a pressure build you would probably want conjure/eviscerate instead.

That's why it needs a minor change, because it's SO strong. And it takes 20 seconds to shutdown.

Owik Gall · Jul 03, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Defy Pain warriors can last longer, but they aren't invincible, especially if they are alone or their team goofs. This skill demands enemy teams to pack excruciatingly devastating team builds. Just imagine: If a well formed party takes less than 20 seconds to kill the tank every time, than it will be quite quicker to kill anyone else. There are other ways that are probably better too, like switching targets to someone weaker.

The team will require organization, which is always encouraged over solo playing. If you catch a tank solo playing and kill it with your team than bad for the tank, but if you solo the tank or keep trying to kill it when you know you can't, than that's bad on you. If the latter is the case than you need to work on your strategies better.

The skill forces enemies to think wiser about the skills they are using and the formation of their team. Any good, or even decent team can kill off a tank, or better yet its entire team. Even if the tank has healers on it, you can still win the battle by chosing your targets right (aim for the squishes that are foolishly ignored by the healers healing the tank.) Remember, the tank is just a body block decoy with the purpose of alluring the whole enemy team to attack it and endure as much damage as it can. So, ignore it until it's the last one standing, or make a team that can kill it in short time via hex stack murder and constant blinding. The former is preferred, though.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. /notsigned

YunSooJin · Jul 03, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

lol wahhh pvp nerf i'm too scrub to interrupt a heal sig.

oh wait, people are crying because all they do is playing scrub-pvp formats where defy pain even matters.. fail

refer · Jul 03, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Well they are defying pain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

On a serious note, defy pain sucks, it doesn't need a nerf. If you see a defy pain warrior and you don't change targets, you're doing something wrong.

what if you have defy pain too?

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jul 03, 2009, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

or make it a stance, plenty of skills can remove it, AND affect it. Being a skill, it cannot be touched.

That would take it out of the game completely. Let's not ask for a Smiter's Boon nerf on everything we don't like. When you're fighting at melee range, IMS and IAS stances are your best friends, having to pick between those and a survivability stance isn't a question. At all.

It's easy enough to counter Defy Pain, I'm just acknowledging the fact that it's an annoying target (read: when half your teammates are wasting their time trying to kill it while they could be doing something useful) and should be nerfed slightly to make it less effective to use when dealing damage or chasing down a kiting monk.

Taixen · Jul 03, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

Well they are defying pain.

what if you have defy pain too?

Then start your next game with a better elite choice.

As said, wasting your elite on defense is somewhat pointless when there are far more effective alternatives in PvP as Warrior's should NOT be tanking, definately in PvP. (Although sadly, the AI tends to be better at recognising AoE than most people you'll meet in RA)

Sarevok Thordin · Jul 03, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Here's what I think

Nerf the damn thing in PvP, it's a complete annoyance.

It can be used in PvE fine enough, but change it for PvP, make it a stance or something, the thing is driving people up the wall in it's current form....

IronSheik · Jul 03, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

How does it lower his dps immensely, really?

And the first part...you obviously dont JQ do you?

First, it's rare to see a warrior with an axe bar with Defy pain as the elite
Most run a tanking/stance build along with it and lions comfort/Heal sig to keep them alive furever.

Also, the elite and frenzy are the basis of a warrior PvP build (Most of the time)
So by bringing defy pain, there's no more Eviscerate, Earth Shaker, Devastating hammer, Nothing, just a preservation skill, so it does lower DPS and versatility immensely.

Second of all, JQ is pve with some real people running around. Defy Pain sucks here too, because if you're attacking a warrior that does nothing to keep NPCs alive, you're doing JQ wrong

Helix Dreadlock · Jul 03, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

First, it's rare to see a warrior with an axe bar with Defy pain as the elite
Most run a tanking/stance build along with it and lions comfort/Heal sig to keep them alive furever.

Also, the elite and frenzy are the basis of a warrior PvP build (Most of the time)
So by bringing defy pain, there's no more Eviscerate, Earth Shaker, Devastating hammer, Nothing, just a preservation skill, so it does lower DPS and versatility immensely.

Second of all, JQ is pve with some real people running around. Defy Pain sucks here too, because if you're attacking a warrior that does nothing to keep NPCs alive, you're doing JQ wrong

doesn't change the fact they bring it...and it takes forever to shutdown, if at all possible.

Burst Cancel · Jul 03, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Wait, so the problem with Defy Pain is that people are too stupid to switch targets? And you want to fix that by nerfing Defy Pain instead of fixing the actual problem (learn2play)?

In what universe is balancing a game around your worst players a good idea?

Reverend Dr · Jul 04, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I'm not talking about a meta in which defy pain warriors exist. I'm talking about todays current meta.

Blind used to only be able to be applied with bflash, now it is much easier with B-surge or glyph + steam. Yet with smite condition, foul feast, or simply clarity + shield, it is easier to deal with todays condition spam than the old application. This was simply a a disagreement to someone's saying to "just run blind + anti-melee," because reality isn't that simple.

-------

Unremovable universal damage reduction has no place in this game. Superior absorption, knight's insignias, and shield -dmg mods were changed away from this. I'm not saying Defy Pain is currently an issue in any PvP formats, because it isn't. Right now Defy Pain has no real use and indeed it may never have a use, but it is one of many skills in the game that are either going to be useless, or far too overpowered in a niche roll. What I am trying to say is that Skills that are either going to be useless or highly exploitable have no place in competitive format.

Anet right now has a terrible history of not noticing problems before they happen and then waiting 3-6 months before they address them. If Anet would address problems as soon as they were identified, I really wouldn't care. But they don't and they won't. As such I really want all skills that have no use at all other than to be exploited in such a way to either be completely changed or flat out removed.

themanj · Jul 04, 2009, 01:46 AM // 01:46

nerf defy pain to speed up ab plz

ShadowsRequiem · Jul 04, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by themanj

nerf defy pain to speed up ab plz

I hope that was sarcasm, if you are not on a team of morons people will just pass him up and cap shrines.

But really its a good tactic in ab bring defy pain tank shit and laugh while half the team of idiots try to kill you while your other 11 people cap. Forget defy pain....... Jeez I think we need to buff players AIs

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 04, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentVex

If they couldn't do anything besides tank infinite damage that would be fine, but the sad fact is that they can still do things, so killing them is as important as any other player.

That's where you're wrong. "Defy Pain" Warriors CAN'T do things. They are quite frankly useless. They're not as important as other players, they're just like 55 monks in RA. That's how much damage they do.

The reason Defy Pain is not as strong as you make it sound is because every warrior has basic needs (below), which Defy Pain messes up.

1. Run skill/snare/KD
2. Healing
3. Resurrection Signet
4. Damage

Along with Defy Pain, the first three things are going to take up at least 4 slots. So now you're left with (at most) 4 slots to make a build that can do at least half-assed damage with 4 regular warrior attack skills, and that's just not going to happen.

Charlotte the Harlot · Jul 04, 2009, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Unremovable universal damage reduction has no place in this game. Superior absorption, knight's insignias, and shield -dmg mods were changed away from this. I'm not saying Defy Pain is currently an issue in any PvP formats, because it isn't. Right now Defy Pain has no real use and indeed it may never have a use, but it is one of many skills in the game that are either going to be useless, or far too overpowered in a niche roll. What I am trying to say is that Skills that are either going to be useless or highly exploitable have no place in competitive format.

Anet right now has a terrible history of not noticing problems before they happen and then waiting 3-6 months before they address them. If Anet would address problems as soon as they were identified, I really wouldn't care. But they don't and they won't. As such I really want all skills that have no use at all other than to be exploited in such a way to either be completely changed or flat out removed.

I agree with this, defy pain should be changed so that its at least useful or good for the game in some way as is its an extremely stupid skill.

Ghost Dog · Jul 04, 2009, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock

(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol

100% agree don't ruin my wars raptor farm while perma noobs and 600's run wild through elite areas.